Veterans Day

[low_delta]

It's the soldier, not the reporter
who has given us freedom of the
PRESS

It's the soldier, not the poet
who has given us freedom of
SPEECH

It's the soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us the freedom to
DEMONSTRATE

It's the soldier, not the lawyer
who has given us the right to a
FAIR TRIAL

It's the soldier who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag
whose coffin is draped by the flag,
who gives the protester the right to burn the flag.
-Father Dennis O'Brien, US Marine Corp. Chaplain


It is important to remember those who have fought for these freedoms. Honor their memories and never give up these rights.

Comments

[shoo.livejournal.com]

right on...

[vyoma.livejournal.com]

It was also the soldier who shot down demonstrators at Kent State not so long ago, and who once enforced the laws of segregation in the South when demonstrators marched against them in the streets. It was soldiers who abandoned all sense and human decency at Abu Ghraib, and soldiers who all too often enforce free speech zones so that nobody need hear those who would exercise their freedom of speech. It was soldiers who, just the night before last, drove two tanks into a crowd of anti-war protestors in the streets of Los Angeles (http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/118865_comment.php#118868), an event which our "free press" has utterly failed to report upon.

Soldiers are people who are very good at following orders. If the orders say that they should fight for the rights Father O'Brien reminds us of, they'll do that. If the orders are to blow up hospitals, target ambulances, or drive tanks over peaceful civilians right here on American soil, they'll do that, too. Soldiers are people who, after all, might face a firing squad should they refuse any order they are given.

I prefer to remember today as Armistice Day, a day when at least one war ended, rather than as Veteran's Day.

[roadskoller.livejournal.com]

And it's also necessary, in this world, to have those soldiers. It's an evil necessity.

[(Anonymous)]

the tank story has already been proven wrong..the "tanks" were getting ready for a parade the next day and got lost..get over it, the hippie libs lost...this is a CHRISTIAN nation and Nov. 2nd proved it..

JT CLARK

[vyoma.livejournal.com]

Uh, yeah, very conveniently they got lost at night right at an antiwar demonstration. Of course, someone who believes that prostrating at the feet of the ghost of a 2000 year old Jewish carpenter guarantees passage into eternal paradise would be likely gto believe that. Its not like tanks come equipped with things like radios or GPS equipment. They get lost in large cities all the time.

Fucking idiot. I got yer "CHRISTIAN nation" right here. Because, you know, Jesus loved tanks. I don't know what the election proved, but you're pretty good evidence that people who think that America is a "Christian nation" are mental midgets.

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

What makes a nation Christian?

[ravengirl.livejournal.com]

we're not christians- we're people.
some of us are christians, some are muslim,...
c'mon. you've heard all of this before.
"give me your tired, your poor..."
not "send only your christians, your bible readers."

Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law
~Thomas Jefferson

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

Are you saying that I should ignore the sacrifices that were made by some because of the wrongs of the others?

I certainly did not mean to imply that we should ignore the wrongs of some because of the sacrifices of others. I usually avoid general staements like this, but this time I felt it was helpful to quote an e-mail forward to make my point.

[vyoma.livejournal.com]

No, my point is that soldiers follow orders.

How many holidays does America have to honor peace, and how many to honor war?

The poem, written by a military chaplain, ignores the point that the soldiers didn't decide on which side of rights they were going to fight. As many soldiers have died in the pursuit of oppression as have in the cause of freedom... perhaps more. The soldiers that died in Vietnam, for example. For what they were going to fight was decided by someone else.

[ravengirl.livejournal.com]

i appreciate the point you make
about honoring peace.
for instance, martin luther king day
is not really a holiday, although some will take it
on principle. why is it less important than veterans day.
maybe it's not- maybe the tradition of veterans day
that remains steadfast.

still, i do see a need for military in every nation
and i don't believe utopia will ever come,
by warring or by peaceful means.

[vyoma.livejournal.com]

Peace and utopia are not the same thing. It's rather sad that people have been brainwashed into thinking that the only way to live in peace is if the world were a perfect place, as opposed to being able to realize that there are other ways of coping with problems than through the use of destruction as a tool for solving one's own problems at the expense of someone else.

Peace will come when people realize that they are finished with killing each other, because they've been doing it for thousands of years and it has accomplished nothing but killing each other.

And why
do you
insist
on typing
like you're writing poetry
when you're endorsing bloodshed?

[ravengirl.livejournal.com]

you're clearly in a bad place today.
the way i'm writing has nothing to do with it.
the end.

[vyoma.livejournal.com]

You're right. It isn't the way you're writing. It's what you're righting.

WAKE UP. You're dreaming.

[ravengirl.livejournal.com]

i feel a need to clarify-
because i think we need a military in order to protect our country
you say i am endorsing bloodshed.
i happen to be against war in general, however,
i do believe that we need to protect our borders
and in keeping an army, we find ourselves using it in ways
that i do not agree with. everything that is invented
finds its way into hands that misuse it
so that even the good is distorted.

i am against the war in iraq.
i thought wrongly that you *knew* my views just a little bit
and would understand my meaning in the previous comment.
therefore, i didn't feel we were debating.

how is it that i'm dreaming!
i think that people who believe that everyone on the planet
will work together and play nice are dreaming.
even those who work peaceably will be met by tyrants,
this remains a fact. it's human nature that leads us to warring,
and, although i wish that it would, i feel that no amount of time will change this.
clearly, we do not learn from history, so what will compel this marveoluos change you dream of.

compared to many of my fellow americans,
i feel i am wide awake
and it's painful to watch as our rights
get trampled and squandered away.
unfortunately, i find myself living in a nation
whose concentration seems to be ruling the world,
a notion i strongly detest.

[vyoma.livejournal.com]

Human nature is to be social. Social behavior is the reason that we managed to survive... the ability to work together.

We live in a world that can provide for everyone. Every single person. Nobody needs to be hungry, sick, homeless, dispossessed. When we start living that way, we won't need the military. We don't have to live in a world full of enemies. As long as we do otherwise, then we're dreaming, because in the end the military can't protect you. Ultimately, on the course that we're going, it will kill us all.

The dream you're dreaming is that armies are necessary. They aren't. Armies exist to enforce the philosophies of governments when a contradictory philosophy threatens its goals. Armies serve the interests of tyrants more often than not, because no tyrant could maintain their power without an army behind him/her.

War must end, or humanity will. And it's time to wake up from this fantasy that we've been fed that human nature is basically destructive. The nature of those who have risen to power may be, but human beings have a natural tendency to get along and work out their differences until forced to do otherwise.

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

Peace will come when people realize that they are finished with killing each other

You're right, except that peace will only come when everyone realizes this *and* decides to do something about it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is one of those dreamers that The Right is always sneering at. However, I think we can make great strides toward peace if we reduce our military and its presence. What you're saying and what I'm saying is only one of many reasons that Bushco is wrong.

[vyoma.livejournal.com]

Screw the Right. I'm pretty good at sneering myself; I'm more concerned about shooting.

You're right, except that peace will only come when everyone realizes this *and* decides to do something about it.

Which, of course, presupposes that someone does these things first. If not myself, then who?

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

What you seem to be advocating an immediate demilitarization. Don't you think that would be suicide? And other attitudes must change as well. Like, we've got to stop messing with the middle east. I mean not only military intervention and support, but commercial and social ventures. And then there are societies that seem to always opt for bloodshed when they gain enough power to do so.

And even as I disagree with you on some of your points, I am glad I won't convince you to discontinue your hardline advocacy of peace.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

Myself, I buy the story that the LAV-25s (which aren't tanks) were en route to someplace else when the protestors decided that they must be The Man and decided to try to be suppressed.

Indymedia is a site so relentlessly biased and twisted that I assume whatever they have to say is a lie unless I can corroborate it elsewhere. Considering how they've reported things I've witnessed in person, I refuse to trust them. If they reported that the sky was blue, I'd go outside and check.

If you think this holiday is about honoring or glorifying war, though, you're missing the point by lightyears. But if you want to blame the whole for the actions of a tiny part of it, well, that's one of the rights your ancestors earned for you.

[sunshyncat.livejournal.com]

*applaudes*

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

Nice flag. I have one just like it, that I found inside the wall of my bedroom (at the old house). It was wrapped in old newspapers, one of which was from WWI.

[sunshyncat.livejournal.com]

Wow! That's is really amazing. I wonder how a flag ended up in the wall!

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

My guess is that it fell down from the attic.

[waning-estrogen.livejournal.com]

I already stole and posted this, but thanks belatedly for being my source.

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

No problem. :-)