(no subject)

[low_delta]

On facebook, a conservative jerk (he's a jerk about conservatism/liberalism) of an acquaintance posted the following:

I was walking home last night after dropping off my car and I passed a church that had a small box out front. The box was labeled "community prayers deposit here". That made me think. I don't doubt the power of positive thinking in a large group and I very much believe in God, but would the supreme being really be interested in this kind of thing? Wouldn't leading a simple and honest life be more important? Could a church really change God's mind if a small group of people prayed for Betty to get well? Wouldn't it be better to just accept the beauty AND the sadness of life in all of it's forms rather than pray for something different?

Here's my unposted response:

I don't doubt the power of positive thinking in a large group I agree
I very much believe in God I don't
would the supreme being really be interested in this kind of thing? It doesn't appear so
Wouldn't leading a simple and honest life be more important? Yes.
Could a church really change God's mind if a small group of people prayed for Betty to get well? Of course not.
Wouldn't it be better to just accept the beauty AND the sadness of life in all of it's forms rather than pray for something different? Very much so

This is such a complex issue, that a facebook post can hardly say anything about it. But to say even less, I "liked" the post.

Comments

[cynnerth.livejournal.com]

You found something to agree with him about! It's best not to start a conversation about it because it'll just ruin it.

[specificocean.livejournal.com]

I agree with you.

[pondhopper.livejournal.com]

I third the above comments.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

Could a church really change God's mind if a small group of people prayed for Betty to get well?

I think even one person can "change G-d's mind", though "changing G-d's mind" is not exactly how I think of it.

While leading a simple and honest life is probably more important than even sincere prayer, I don't know why this should be an either-or. You can do both.

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of ifs that come into play.

If prayer has an external effect, then yes. Do it too. If prayer has only an internal effect, such as making one more devout, then sure, do it too. If either of these are true, it would still seem more important to live right, than to pray right. I think that actions speak louder than words.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

yes but, my point is more that there's no reason why you have to EITHER live right OR pray right. why can't you do both? (of course, for jews, praying is PART of living right)

For instance, in Judaism, on Yom Kippur, when we are acknowledging our sins in the unetanneh tokef, we say "But Repentance (teshuvah), Prayer (t'fillah), and tzedakah avert the severe Decree". "Tzedakah" is often translated as charity because it is the word Jews use to refer to the charitable giving of money (though this is a very different concept in Judaism), but it really means "righteousness" or "justice". In other words, you cannot just do one or the other, you must do all three. You must both live right and pray and "return" (lit. the meaning of teshuvah) from your bad actions.

[ravenfeather.livejournal.com]

I think prayer is more about the person praying than the target of the prayer.

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

Definitely. Not that that's a bad thing.

On the other hand, I do have some sort of belief in the power of positive thinking.

[ravenfeather.livejournal.com]

I agree... but without the "positive" attachment. I do think there is power in large groups of people all with the same... thought agenda, but it ain't always in the best interest of the world as a whole IMO. Yes, positive thinking is powerful, but negative thinking is equally powerful.

Unfortunately from what I have seen "church" is associated with the negative aspect of that power more often than not.

[mellary4.livejournal.com]

I don't get how leading a simple and honest life replaces prayer. How are they connected?

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

I think because being good creates good, and praying doesn't, though people think that it should. Actions speak louder than words.

[sunshine-two.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it helps but, I doubt if it hurts. I think in many ways, it benefits the person who prays. I had an elderly woman who I only know in passing, tell me she prayed for me seventeen days in a row when I returned to work after being ill. It gave me a warm feeling, and made me feel good. Perhaps, it does work both ways.