war

[low_delta]

Headlines reported "Three soldiers killed in Jenin." How many Palestinians did those soldiers kill before they died?

Report from the front.

Comments

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

How many Afghanis have we killed?

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

I don't know. All we hear about are our wounded soldiers.

It's the same reason, really. The media, or other people in charge are concerned with making the "correct" side look good.

I keep hoping that our forces over there are acting on intelligence reports and taking action against al-Qaida members, and not like the Israeli army seems to be doing, and shooting at anyone who looks like they might be a terrorist.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I don't know about you, but I've seen plenty of headlines announcing Palestinian casualties. All you have to do is search the websites of the papers and you find them. I've been aware since the beginning of the deaths on both sides.

I've ALSO seen/heard firsthand accounts from both Israelis AND Palestinians. Have you seen any firsthand Israeli accounts?

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

No, I haven't. But none of that pro-palestinian stuff I've heard has been from mainstream newsmedia.

I guess I'm just generally not in the loop. I should keep quiet, I guess.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

It's not necessary to "keep quiet"-- just make sure you get both sides of the story :) There are a couple of testimonials on weirdjews from an LJ user in Israel.

I get touchy about it because I HAVE heard both sides, so when either side goes off, I get all rr. Everyone in this conflict is human. The Palestinians are currently suffering under the temporary invasions, and the Israelis are suffering from a year and a half of suicide-bombings-every-other-day. Both sides have done and will do horrible things to each other. Both have come together in peace demonstrations and have maintained friendships.

The Israelis don't want to slaughter the Palestinians, they're just angry and frustrated and don't know what else to do but take Sharon's word that they are actually preventing terrorism. These current invasions were sparked by the fact that a suicide bomber killed over 20 people who were peacefully conducting a Passover seder in a hotel. How would the Palestinians react if a bomber came into a mosque during Ramadan and blew up a bunch of people? This entire Intifada was touched off simply because Sharon walked into a mosque! No one was even harmed, and riots started!

That said, I think that Sharon is wrong and that his actions will harm rather than help at this point. Actually I think both Sharon and Arafat are nutcases and I wish they'd both suddenly choke and die for the good of both their peoples.

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

I'll try to check out weirdjews.

Both sides have done and will do horrible things to each other. I've never really heard many bad things about the Israeli side. And now, with this current conflict it all seems to be coming out. There was this illusion that Israel was somehow more civilized than the rest of the middle east, so I'm reacting in part to this betrayal of my feelings.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I think Israel _IS_ more civilized than the middle east in many ways. Women there have rights, can hold jobs, walk around in shorts, and even serve in the army. They have a legitimately elected government as opposed to a dictatorship or monarchy. Their public school systems are secular. Etc.

We cannot, unfortunately, say these things about any other Middle Eastern government.

Additionally, the Israelis could have simply driven the Palestinians out during the Yom Kippur War of 1978 (or the 6-day war in 1967), as the Jews were driven out of most Arab countries in 1947 when Israel became a country (did you know that Saudi Arabia tried to keep Jewish US soldiers from fighting in Desert Storm because they don't allow Jews on their soil?). They didn't.

What we have to understand is that Israel has been for the past year and a half under constant terrorist attack; an intifada started when Sharon walked into a mosque. In America, one (admittedly awful) attack caused us to attack another country, bomb it for weeks, pull down its government, and basically occupy it militarily. What would we do if we were the victims of constant terrorist attacks? If churches were bombed during Easter services, leaving grandparents and children dead? If our school buses became targets of suicide bombers?

If you think we wouldn't do some questionably moral things under the circumstances in the name of self-defense, you've more faith in the US (and human nature in general) than I. When people are scared, angry, and under constant attack, they will DO things like invade areas and try to destroy terrorist cells, inevitably killing civilians in the process. They'll even do things like follow Dubya! :)

I have met members of the Israeli army (no student group in Israel is allowed on trips unattended due to terrorist attacks on such groups-- I saw cemetaries full of slaughtered 15-17 year olds). They are not monsters who want to kill children or gun down innocents. If we see both sides as people who are acting under incredible pressure, we will be closer to seeing why such tragedies are occuring.

[low-delta.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it exactly that way. It's difficult to put into words. I guess I'll just say that I was surprised by the brutality of the Israeli troops.