hydrogen

[low_delta]

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are supposed to be cleaner than fossil fuel powered cars. The only byproduct of burning hydrogen is water [oops, the hydrogen is not burned]. President Bush says that such cars will "make our air significantly cleaner, and our country much less dependent on foreign sources of oil."

But he's also developed a plan for producing the hydrogen. Using fossil fuels. It's obvious that oil profits come before the environment (and always have), but where is the energy independence?

And whether it makes sense to create the hydrogen using oil or not, Bush is lying to us. Our air will not be cleaner, and this will do nothing to reduce our dependency on foreign oil.

Article at Mother Jones.

Comments

[fishcart.livejournal.com]

yeah, the only way to really farm the hydrogen to help the environment is through solar power. if we could just increase the efficiency a percentage or two it will be cost productive. maybe if we start the production using fossil fuels, when solar power becomes more efficient, we can convert fossil to alternative energy easily and we will be depending on hydrogen at the right time.

[dwivian]

Central production of hydrogen from fossil fuel, while not optimally efficient, IS much cleaner on the air than independent engines, if for no other reason than the production plants can employ significant scrubbers before the air is released. Mother Jones always seems to skip over that, because it is an inconvenient fact. :)

But, all fossil fuel is, is bottled solar power. Everything outside of geothermal and nuclear is solar, eventually. So, it seems that we should be able to work through the middleman process until we can make direct hydrogen from solar seperation processes.... It's just got to be reasonably efficient.

[rivendweller.livejournal.com]

I read once (can't remember where) that efficient non-fossil-fuel-burning methods had been developed, but the patents were bought up by big oil companies and put in a drawer.

[marswalker.livejournal.com]

What Dwivian Said. No question about that.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if more solar/wind generators were produced and purchased, for producing household / industrial power as well as running elctrolisys units to "make" hydrogen, the process would become cost-productive in a short time.

The next steps would be fuel cells able to convert hydrogen into electricity; then a house could store up hydrogen during the day, and use it at night for electricity. I'm a big-time proponant of solar and hydrogen technology, and wold love to see the oil mongers put out to pasture. In fact, once i have my desert house, one of the first considerations will be where to put the solar pannels in. :-)

Good subject for discussion!

[marswalker.livejournal.com]

Battery storage is not a good solution for energy; especially over long-term. Batteries lose energy over time, the longer the period the more loss there is. For instance, NiMH batteries drop as much as a third of their initial charge over 24 hours (newer ones may work better). Lead-acid batteries also loose charge over time; not too mention most rechargable batteries contain toxins.

I agree that burning or processing oil to make hydrogen is just stupid.

During the rotating blackouts in 2000, I did some spreadsheet work, and figgured it would take less than $200,000,000 dollars to re-roof a large number of shcools, and thow in enough solar pannels to generate enough energy at peak time to make up for what they were claiming the grid was short by, plus 50%. The california school system would have benefitted by not needing to pay for power, the state would have benefitted in several aspects (less polution, re-roofed schools, power on the grid when it's needed most, no new power plants or infrustructure required, construction jobs created, etc). But it aparently made more sense to throw money into enron, santa fe, pg&e, etc, than do something good for the general public.

It's not that we don't have the technology, the know-how, the raw materials, etc. The system is controlled by people who would rather "take their cut" than do the right thing. (this is a pet peave. when i get my desert house, one of the things will be a "lifetime" roof and solar pannels.)